Ouch!!

Middle School Standards Based Grading Parent Surveys

Below are comments from parents on the Standards Based Learning/Grading program surveys.

Is there anything else you would like us to know regarding the pilot?

1. In regards to number 5 above - while I agree with giving kids multiple
opportunities to increase their knowledge (ie. retakes), I am strongly against the
concept than an A on the third try of a test is equivalent to an A on the first try of a
test. That does not encourage or motivate the kids to study hard the first time and
doesn't reward them nor teach them consequences and certainly does not
prepare them for real life situations (where there will not always be "do overs") or
even high school and college study habits. Nov 19, 2010 8:03 PM

2. I would like to see a hold put on this until a computer grading system can be found
that is compatible with the program. It was difficult to track.
I believe that a better pilot for this program would be for the lower grades. Start it
with a class and just carry through from one year to the next. It's quite a change
for those who are set in their ways with the old system.
Although my child did take advantage of the retake chance one time, I question if
it is a good preparation for high school. Nov 19, 2010 8:07 PM

3. The execution of the pilots seemed to follow the McKinsey & Company consulting
model. McKinsey develops strategy but they do not execute. The intentions
behind the pilot may have been good but the execution in terms of transparency,
communications, and grading was far short of the mark. Nov 19, 2010 8:09 PM

4. It is unfortunate that the school didn't communicate with the parents in full about
what to expect with this grading system and we would hope that in the future,
parental input prior to the launch of anything new would occur. Parents can and
should be seen as partners with the school but when they are given minimal
information about fundamental changes impacting their child, they shouldn't be
expected to embrace them.

I find it curious that we were under the impression this pilot was a year-long effort
and we get an email with no explanation as to WHY the pilot had ended.
Perhaps beginning this type of system with a new first grade class would be more
appropriate understanding that it will take 8 years to fully implement it. That way,
children won't be accustomed to something else and asked to grasp some very
difficult concepts.

Either way, if the school plans to move forward, they owe it to the families who
pay their salaries to better understand it, better communicate it and better
implement it. Nov 19, 2010 8:13 PM

5. We philosophically do not disagree with the Standards Based Approach - but
have 2 major issues: Communication and Implementation.

Communication - trying to communicate such a large initiative in the 10 minutes of
parent night was ridiculous. This should have been explained in a town-hall
setting. The follow-up 4 page email from the teacher, was then too much info,
when I didn't understand the entire concept. My son didn't understand either.
Even today, he doesn't understand how he did if he got a 2.0 out of 2.0 - because
on the scale provided, that is a C, but that is the highest he can get.
Implementation - wow, this is a major area for improvement. It feels like this was
very rushed and not thought thru. From the curriculum perspective, maybe, but
not from the actual implementation with students. We did not receive ANY
communication at home about how my son was doing in spanish - no
communication at all! Isn't that the point, so you know where they are weak and
can help. The online grading system didn't work either - so that was no help in
gauging how my son was doing. I had no idea where to help my son improve.
Now he has his report card and there is nothing I can do about the grade -
because no one told me there were issues.

Lack of consistency in grading – every class in 3rd grade is doing something
different. In 5th grade it sounds like it will be up to the teachers to “round out” the
grading because they really can’t trust what they have. This is very concerning –
I’m not sure that the grading is valid. Can we trust the results when admitedly Ms.
Lasko, Mrs. Pokorny & Dr. Fredisorf were going to "figure out" their grades in the
1 week between the M.S. parent meeting and the end of the trimester?
Test retakes – again lack of consistency – no limit in some classes, limits in
others. No guidelines on whether to interrupt the class with retakes or do them
before/after school. Children & parents are responsible for “re-teaching” prior to
doing a re-take - how does this work in a foreign language? It also has been
incredibly demotivating, as it is looked negatively upon by his peers, if students retake
a test. The kids get labeled -what was a private matter before, his score, is
now public, because retakes are during class time.

Lack of a “test & control” group in order to see how the pilot is working against the
norm. From a research perspective, it would make the most sense to have two
5th grade Spanish classes doing the pilot and 2 not doing the pilot. So you can
measure success against the control. I've not been made aware of any metrics in
place to measure overall success - how is Pleasantdale defining success if they
are not measuring? Right now, it is too late to implement metrics – so you have
no way of knowing if this is working.

Grading - to sit at the Middle School meeting and hear that the teachers are
worried about the grades because they don't reflect what they think the student
should be doing is incredibly subjective and totally ridiculous. There are no
guardrails at all with this pilot.

Teacher feedback - I'd be interested to see anonymous teacher feedback. As I've
had many conversations and they are not happy with this, from the extra workload
to not being sure if the kids are learning more. They are exhausted with
administering retakes, grading retakes and trying to determine grades in an
alternate system.

Why are we doing this again? Don't motivated teachers = motivated students?
What happens when the teachers are unmotivated? Nov 19, 2010 8:20 PM

6. This pilot program has failed miserably. Our child, an "A student" was confused,
we received very little information early and then almost nothing as far as
progress along the way, inquiries on grading/status reports were not fulfilled and,
most importantly, our child was demotivated by not understanding the goals.
While the concept of "learning versus testing" is admirable, the administration and
school board should be very embarrassed by rolling out a program without key
factors (grading system, communications, motivational techniques, etc.)
determined ahead of time. Believe in your teachers, school board/superintendent
and KILL THIS PROGRAM. Nov 19, 2010 8:38 PM

7. How are you going to measure if this pilot to see if it improves scores if you have
nothing to compare it to? The subject areas you are piloting it in, have no
standard assesement to compare it to. Also, this type of learning does not
prepare the students for high school. In high school and college, you are required
to study everything and then take an exam. With this standard base assesment
they are told exactly what is being tested....That's not real life! Nov 19, 2010 8:48 PM

8. I think this pilot had potential, but was not executed properly. Teachers where
confused and kids in the same grades where being told different things(ie: you
have one week, another class got as many tries as they liked). The students
where confused and then when parents tried to learn we where told different
things, depending on who we talked with.

Parents & Teachers need to be on the same page, before administrators can
rush a failed product.

I have 2 students, one child and A+(Gold Honor Roll) student who felt that she
didn't have to study that much since they can just take a retest. My other child is
a C student which this program could really help, but there is a peer pressure not
to retake, because kids know that you didn't do good or that you are not as bright
as others.
Lastly, the make up time should be during before or after school or during lunch.
My A student should not lose a day of class(punished) because others are not
doing as well or working as hard. Nov 19, 2010 9:21 PM

9. I don't see any reason to change a grading system that has been in place for
many many years. I don't agree in some cases with letting a child retake a test
over and over again until he/she passes . It does not teach them that they must
study hard to pass a test the first time. I don't think they will put in the effort
knowing that they have many chances to pass in they don't pass the first time.
They have to understand the consequences of passing or failing based on the
effort they put in studying beforehand. Everyone is not at the same level and this
has to be understood by the kids. I would like to see the grading system revert
back to normal grading of A through F as we all have understood for many
decades. I am not sure all the teachers agree with this system either and are
hesitant to say anything to their Superiors. Nov 19, 2010 9:50 PM

10. There are no "do overs" in life and I think you are teaching a very dangerous
lesson to these kids!!
I know that some kids didn't study for an assessment and took it knowing they
could take it again when they knew what was on the test already for the 2nd time
around. This is not a lesson I want my children learning. Nov 19, 2010 10:16 PM

11. I wasn't sure why this approach was used. I didn't get the benefit of it. I found it
confusing. All I wanted to see is what grade the numbers were equivalent to. Nov 19, 2010 10:30 PM

12. I think that the standards-based approach worked for the music class, but I did not
feel that it worked for my child in the Spanish class. My child excels in Spanish so
his outcome grade was similar to the the traditional grading system. I never felt
that I knew where my child was as far as his grade in Spanish (it was clear for
music). The mid-trimester grade was VERY different from his semester grade and
I think that added to the confusion. I think the standards-based approach for
Spanish may make sense for those students that my struggle more with the
language. Nov 19, 2010 11:08 PM

13. There was not enough communication to from teacher to parent to know how my
child was doing in the classes seeing as this approach was not compatiable with
STI.

Also, this approach to learning does not prepare them for high school. The
majority of teachers at LT do NOT offer retesting of skills. If we let kids take and
retake,and retake tests....our kids will be in shock when they get to high school.
I also had a very discouraged kid whom verbalized how difficult it was to earn an
A(4), either because one wrong on a test was a B; or because the level 4 grade
was "something that isn't taught". He was very confused on how to obtain that
higher grade. Nov 20, 2010 1:10 AM

14. I do not want my child to take part in another pilot. Nov 20, 2010 1:23 AM

15 The ability to take the test over creates a lack of motivation. Nov 20, 2010 1:41 AM

16. This was not an experience that allowed my child to become passionate about the
social studies unit. The regurgitation of definitions was not a method that evoked
a natural desire to want to know more. It seemed to be more of a chore. Nov 20, 2010 3:10 AM

17. This is a very important and exciting initiative that did not get enough explanation
for parents. It was only by accident that I became aware of it. I know that info
sessions were offered to parents but they were not planned with enough advance
notice for me to attend. The session at Curriculum Night was not adequately
publicized beforehand. I am in support of this initiative but need alot more
coaching to understand and assist in it. Nov 20, 2010 12:34 PM

18. WE HAD NO IDEA WHAT HIS GRADE WAS DURING THE TRIMESTER
BECAUSE STI WAS BLANK, SAID NA. WE KNEW WHAT HIS OTHER GRADES
WERE.I WOULD HAVE EXPECTED A PILOT PROGRAM TO BE MORE
INFORMATIVE THAN THE OLD ONE OTHERWISE HOW IS THIS BETTER. I
DON'T SEE HOW THIS GRADING SYSTEM IS BETTER. Nov 20, 2010 2:31 PM

19. Didn't think the original grading was fair, glad it was changed to be in line with all
the other classes. Nov 20, 2010 6:03 PM

20. I would like to know the why this system was chosen and who recommended it?
What need did our school district have to change its grading system when this is
not widely used in the country? Nov 21, 2010 4:39 PM

21. The communication from the school was poor. Dr. Fredisdorf did not do a good
job in communicating information to parents. Nov 22, 2010 1:01 AM

22. I do not like this grading system, I feel it is confusing Nov 22, 2010 4:18 PM

23. I agree to all the Positive re-enforcrmrnt , but not agree with the Re-Taking of
tests. They need the chance to score 100% which not very likely with this
approach. Nov 22, 2010 4:18 PM

24. I thought the confusion was the middle and elementry went about it in 2 different
ways. not all teachers were on the same page. Should of left out the grade factor
from the begining. Should of had it a point system all long, Some teachers made
retakes mandatory others did not. kids confused about only being able to get a 2
instead of a 4. Child got questions right in the 3 point an 4 point sections but
because of the miss int he 1 to 2 point system brought the whole grade down Nov 23, 2010 2:52 AM

25. Did not feel that the standards based approach had any impact on my child's
motivation to learn. My child's focus seemed to be on the scores on STI are not
an indication on how well I'm doing..

With change there is always a need to provide continous communication, maybe
the communication on STI could have been different to assist the parents in
understanding truly how their child is performing in the course. Nov 23, 2010 5:23 PM

26. The pilot was poorly executed. The district did not communicate goals nor did
communicate criteria for success.

My child was de-motivated by the grading system, it did not encourage them to try
their hardest on the first try. It did not encourage successful children, in fact it
forced successful students to wait for the rest of the class to catch. It seems like it
is geared to promote average performance and eliminate excellence. Nov 24, 2010 1:12 AM

27. There appears to be no valid rationale for pursuing this change. There are too
many measurements per class, it is confusing.
The kids are do not know if they should try hard the first time or if they should wait
for the re-take.
I'm not sure why we are changing the grading system. Nov 24, 2010 1:36 AM

28. Perhaps it was the grade/age of student, but to go from one set of expectations
for many years to another without an appropriate period of transition was difficult.
There was much confusion as to how the grading worked and how to obtain a
high grade. It appears the exercise could be successful in the long run, especially
for teachers, but would require inordinate time and effort on everyone's part. If
this type of grading began in the earliest grade and then continued on throughout
a student's school career, this could be beneficial to everyone involved. It was too
much, too quickly, too late for our family. Nov 26, 2010 3:19 PM

29. Our children will be at a disadvantage for the rest of their education. In High
school and University they will be measured by the ABC grading system. We
should be consistent with that grading method. In University, your grade is solely
dependent on your test scores. No one cares if you attended class or not. In their
chosen professions later in life they will be reviewed based on their performance,
life seldom affords retakes. We must teach our children now that they must put in
effort in order to reap life's rewards. In my opinion the standards based approach
does not accomplish this. You are enforcing the wrong behavior. This program is
a bad idea!!!! Please for our children's sake do not go forward with it. Nov 27, 2010 7:05 PM

30. There was commiunication attempts for the Spanish pilot. The 10 minute
explanation during open house created much concern. The follow-up 4 page
document that was very long and difficult to follow. This led to so many more
questions that weren't answered. With a major change like this, it should have
been communicated through a parent meeting. Although there was
communication, it wasn't helpful to me or my child. If fact a bit overwhelming. I
did not receive/see my child's tests during the trimester to provide feedback on
where she excels or needs improvement. She did very well in the class so this
may be why but I'd be concerned as a parent if my child wasn't doing well and
what I would see. My child didn't clearly understand the expectation based on the
information given to her. It was difficult for me to explain it since I too was
confused, especially around the grading portion. There is room for improvement
on communication.

Overall the implementation and execution of this pilot was little to be desired. It
appears SBG was pushed out before it was thought out. I'm not sure what the
rush was or why it was implemented 1st trimester. A good implementation plan
includes drilling down to every aspect of the pilot. I understand not every portion
of a pilot will work the first time however, the major components needed to be very
clear before starting. These components included initital communication and
ongoing status of my child's progress (notes above), grading, re-takes and
measurements of success.

Grading was a huge concern after hearing at the Middle School meeting that they
would need to "figure out the grading" when there was only 10 days left of the
trimester. It was the concern of the teachers the scores didn't necessarily reflect
what the kids knew and understand. This then becomes more subjective than
objective. It my opinion, the majority should be objective with a smaller poriton of
subjectivity. Also, STI could not handle this type of grading. Based on the Middle
School meeting, it appears this was know before the start of the pilot. If it wasn't,
a good project plan should have had a plan before it was rolled out. (vs we'll
figure it out - possibly run the pilot without the grading portion until a plan has
been decided)

The concept of re-taking to better yourself seems to have some merit. However, it
should not be at the cost of those who have mastered the concepts. For those
who didn't retake, they sat idle in the classroom waiting and wanting to learn
more. For those retaking, they were clearly known by their classmates they didn't
do well on the test. I fear this is going to be a demotivator instead of a motivator.
Unfortunately, life is not about re-takes and you get a chance to better yourself if
you fail. We should not be teaching our children it's ok and "expect" a second,
third, etc chance. If in fact a child is motivated to do better the retake needs to be
done on his/her own time (before or after school, rec time, etc). This will really
show if they are motivated to do better taking their personal time.

Lastly, I still (after attending several meetings, reading all the communications
and done online research on my own) don't understand why we are piloting SBG.
What are the benefits to the school and to the children? In addition, what
constitutes success? In the corporate world, we use controlled and noncontrolled
environments to determine if there is improvements. This didn't happen in the
SBG pilot. In meetings, we've asked what are the measurments to show success.
To date, I have not received any answers. I hope it's not that all kids receive an
"A."

A pilot as defined in the dictionary is: "A small-scale test project used to assess
the viability of a concept prior to committing significant capital to a large-scale
project." Based on meetings, it appears this was not a pilot but rather phase 1 of
several. It was clearly noted in the middle school meeting there were things to
work on (major things) but that it was moving forward which does not reflect a pilot
In my opinion there are many great aspects of SBG however, until we can
understand why we are doing this, how to communicate better and how to do it
better than the initial pilot/phase 1, we need to step back and regroup until all the
major concerns can be resolved. Nov 28, 2010 2:02 PM

31. My child hated it and I thought the communication was awful! Nov 29, 2010 12:42 AM

32. This pilot, if that is what it truly is, was executed very poorly.

-Presentation of the pilot to families - Explaining it in the 20 minutes at parent
night in September was not adequate at all. I had no understanding of how it was
different from a normal 4 point grading scale or the reason behind it and what we
were trying to accomplish. Then a lengthy email came home that tried to explain
it - but created more confusion.

-Child confusion (not motivation) - several children, including my own, were
incredibly confused about what they were supposed to do and why everything
changed from their normal way to be graded. The test retakes de-emphasized
the importance of studying well the first time. If a child was retaking the test,
everyone in the class knows it - and it also carries a negative connotation.

- Written &/or verbal communication was terrible - I had no idea how my child was
doing...nothing was coming home weekly that showed how they were tracking
against the objectives, like in elementary. The online system did not provide a
valid look at my child's grade either. I've heard rumors that we plan on dumping
STI, but I'd rather see us rethink Standards Based Grading - as it is totally
disfunctional. Nov 29, 2010 1:05 AM

33. While we want Pleasantdale to continue to strive to be one of the best schools;
this is 6th grade Spanish. We really wish it were a pass/fail class. Nov 30, 2010 5:15 PM